A heated confrontation over ethical standards and policy adherence halted progress on a routine hiring process during a Thurston County Board of County Commissioners (BoCC) meeting on Wednesday, Feb. 26.
The hiring of an executive aide for Commissioner Emily Clouse was left unresolved due to allegations of voting misconduct and legal uncertainties.
Until a legal review confirms or invalidates Commissioner Emily Clouse’s votes, the BoCC is stuck without a formal administrative decision.
The debate revolves around the recommendations made by the county’s Human Resources (HR), with concerns about conflicts of interest and legal clarity.
Clouse defended her qualifications and referenced her training record in compliance with established protocols.
“I’ve completed a total of ... 58 hours of training since December. So, if there’s any questions about that, or any of the specific trainings I’ve provided, I’m happy to answer any questions,” she said.
Commissioner Wayne Fournier quickly raised objections to the motion introduced by BoCC Tye Menser. Fournier questioned whether Clouse could participate in decisions affecting a position she would directly supervise.
“Typically, if it has anything to do with you, you can’t vote, you can’t make a second, and you can’t make the motion,” Fournier argued.
Fournier cited the BoCC’s procedures, Robert’s Rules of Order and the county’s code of conduct as possible grounds for disqualifying Clouse's self-interested voting.
“You should not be taking a vote when it’s in your self-interest,” Fournier asserted and stressed the ethical implications of such a move.
Clouse did not accept the premise. The exchange triggered a heated discussion.
Menser attempted to resolve the impasse. He real-time scanned legal references during the discussion.
“While Robert’s Rules allow for self-voting, some organizations might have additional ethical guidelines regarding voters voting on matters with personal interest,” he explained.
The ambiguity was acknowledged, and Menser sought a practical solution.
“Nothing will occur in response to this motion until we have that confirmation from the Prosecuting Attorney’s Office that that vote was properly cast,” he said.
The issue of voting legitimacy was not the only point of contention. The supervisory structure for the executive aide position also sparked disagreement.
HR recommended a dual-supervisory model, in which the new hire would report to Clouse and another county official.
However, clarity on implementation was lacking. Some commissioners saw the arrangement as a necessary safeguard, but others viewed it as an unnecessary bureaucratic complication.
Fournier and Commissioner Carolina Mejia demanded the structure be finalized before any hiring process begins.
Fournier took a firm stance.
“You can’t hire somebody when it’s not determined what their job is going to be. ... It would be improper to take action before the hiring takes place," he said.
Clouse resisted Fournier and Mejia’s framing.
She said the authority structure was already established and saw no reason to delay the hiring process. She also explained that minor adjustments to the job description could be made later in consultation with HR.
Mejia and Fournier saw the matter differently. They believed HR had already signaled the need for a second supervisory figure to mitigate risk.
“From what I understand, this is HR saying it would be too great of a risk to the county to allow Commissioner Clouse to be the sole supervisor of this EA,” Fournier emphasized.
Fournier warned that proceeding without addressing these concerns could expose the county to legal challenges.
“Please listen, you know this needs to be figured out in a timely manner, but it needs to be figured out in an orderly manner, or we're going to end up with more problems and we're going to end up with another big lawsuit,” he said.
The board reached no consensus.
To break the impasse, Menser suggested moving forward with the hiring process while continuing discussions on the supervisory framework.
Fournier opposed the idea and argued that the county was “putting the cart before the horse.” Fournier and Mejia moved to direct the county manager to work with HR and legal counsel to develop supervisory recommendations before any recruitment could begin.
Clouse saw it as redundant and unnecessary.
Wary of delays, Menser noted the hiring process would take time.
He explained, “This month to two month process of getting the right person selected through multiple interview panels needs to start ... That’s my concern.”
Fournier was not convinced the county was proceeding correctly.
“You can’t start the hiring process on a job where you can’t put in that you put out the job description and it doesn’t say who your supervisor is. There’s a problem," he said.
To understand both sides, Menser attempted to thread the needle between urgency and due diligence as he advocated for efficiency.
“I want to see exactly what you’re saying, Commissioner Fournier, but I don’t want to lock it into saying we can’t start this," Menser said.
County Manager Leonard Hernandez interjected and promised that staff would craft a framework with a “matrix of supervision” and submit it for legal review. He mentioned that they’ll process it in a span of two work weeks.
The board reached a reluctant understanding.
Hernandez and HR would draft a plan. Legal counsel would review it. Then, hiring preparations would proceed, though no final hiring decision would be made until the structure was resolved.
The meeting concluded with three separate votes. Clouse’s role in self-interest voting, the hiring process timeline and the revised supervisory framework are now in limbo.
The BoCC would have to wait for the county’s Prosecuting Attorney’s Office to weigh in on whether Clouse’s votes would be valid.
According to the board, uncertainty left open questions. If Clouse’s votes were invalidated, the hiring process could be frozen in place. If they were upheld, the BoCC would be forced to accept decisions that Fournier and Mejia had opposed.
Commissioner Rachel Grant who was virtually present, left the meeting early, but she voted on a motion directing staff to draft a proposed supervisory framework for legal review.
“We need to make sure we’re doing this right,” Fournier said. “Otherwise, we’re just going to be right back here in a few months, dealing with the same problems.”
Without legal confirmation, the BoCC cannot advance the hiring process for the executive aide to Clouse.
20 comments on this item Please log in to comment by clicking here
JulesJames
More of Ms. Clouse being all about Ms. Clouse. Hope that district is gearing up a replacement. She needs to be shown the door in the primary.
Monday, March 3 Report this
JW
Elect a clown and expect a circus, and this circus keeps coming back to town for more shows.
Monday, March 3 Report this
jimlazar
It is time to end the continued assault of Commissioner Clouse.
We elected her. By a bigger margin that other contested races.
The votes she has taken on issues of interest to the community have reflected the community values. She is protecting our environment, assuring quality services, and listening to constituent problems and looking for solutions. The knowledge and experience she brings to the Commission is different from the others, and useful to the Commission.
People are criticizing Commissioner Clouse for what appears to have been a single error of judgment. Meanwhile, we are living with the absolute mess that past Commissioners created for the County budget. These include allowing excessive development in rural areas which harmed ecosystems and increased costs for law enforcement, their near-destruction of the Department of Health (which has still not recovered), and their failure to hold the Sheriff to his appropriated budget. Each of those problems carries costs in the $million -- each was at least 10X the magnitude of any error by Commissioner Clouse.
Early in my professional career, I served as an aide to an elected official for two years. My title was "secretary." I had a multitude of duties. I understand the role, the vulnerability, and the anxiety involved. Clearly, Commissioner Clouse's assistant was not suited to that task.
Give it up and move ahead. A shared supervision arrangement is probably appropriate for the personal aides for EACH of the Commissioners; and hopefully it would never be invoked.
Monday, March 3 Report this
Claire
Thurston County has way more pressing issues, i.e. budget and other Financials, to be wasting time/effort/attention on Clouse. She should just resign, move on and be done with it.
Tuesday, March 4 Report this
BobB
Richard Nixon overwhelmingly won his election in 1972 losing only Minnesota and the District of Columbia. He didn't get a pass for his Watergate cover up lapse of judgment. Getting the most votes and liking how she may vote on the BOCC does not give Clouse a pass for her conduct. It was not only one small lapse of judgment but an ongoing failure to do the right thing and repeated acts of misconduct that would have resulted in any other employee being fired. I agree with her policy votes too but can't ignore her egocentric attitude and blaming everyone else for her own behaviors. Thurston county did well settling the employee's lawsuit for a mere $700,000. It's hard to come up with a dollar value to the hit on county government's credibility and reputation. Any imperfection in county governance is amplified by her continuing to serve. If she had any sense of decency, she would resign but she's more committed to her $142K paycheck to do that. People should feel free to criticize Commissioner Clouse. I'm certain we can do better the next election when she's up again for her staggered term in November, 2026.
Tuesday, March 4 Report this
OlyBlues
What a mess Clouse has created for the county. As if the big lawsuit for her unethical and poor decision making was not enough, then came the $300K payout. The BOCC is making the correct decisions to keep Clouse reigned in before she commits more personnel issues and lawsuits for the county. Clouse is being very selfish and greedy holding onto her huge paycheck she could not make anywhere else instead of doing the right and moral thing and that is resign. JW makes an excellent point, elect a clown, expect the circus. Unfortunately we are all stuck watching this costly show.
Tuesday, March 4 Report this
S2345S23456
Oh politics! Of course these conservative "daddy-knows-best" patriarchal fuddy-duddys want to block this powerful, liberal, and highly intelligent woman, Commissioner Clouse. They should not be so scared of powerful witches, they can be actually pretty healing and magical. Whether Commissioner Clouse made a mistake with her last aid, or she was framed, certainly the odds of a repeat are extremely unlikely. Of course she would want some say about whom she works with next. Wouldn't you prefer to chose someone to work with who is emotionally stable and isn't going to frame you?
Tuesday, March 4 Report this
S2345S23456
Of course, male politicians sleeping with their aids is perfectly acceptable, and they should be allowed to keep doing their job undisrupted (sarcasm).
Tuesday, March 4 Report this
bonaro
Clearly the BoCC sees the liability of Clouse's lack of ethics and poor choices, not to mention her willingness to cover it up.
If Clouse can only be trusted if she has close supervision and/or limited involvement, wouldn't it be easier if she were just recalled.
In response to jimlazar. Yes, you elected her but you made a really poor choice. You should admit that.
Tuesday, March 4 Report this
bonaro
To s234s2345...That's odd, I didn't see where she said she was a powerful witch in the voter pamphlet, I guess she snuck that one in on us. Also, you can't really suggest she was framed when she admitted what she did...after lying for a while.
Tuesday, March 4 Report this
HappyOlympian
Clouse has proven zero ability to properly supervise or lead, and in fact the opposite. Her ethical standards clearly non-existent. Anyone defending her actions just because they voted for her has no ability to admit they were wrong. Her continuing to a part of any government anywhere a travesty of a mockery of a sham.
Tuesday, March 4 Report this
S2345S23456
This is not even about Commissioner Clouse. It's about blocking the voice of the people whom she represents.
Tuesday, March 4 Report this
S2345S23456
To bonaro, I suppose you haven't read all the news.
Tuesday, March 4 Report this
BobB
I incorrectly stated what it cost to settle the lawsuit based on Clouse's actions. It was "only" $300,000 (not $700,000). But there were still the costs of the outside firm's investigation and the fact that her former aide continued to be on paid leave with benefits until the end of December 2024. This does not include the time spent by the BOCC and county staff associated with this fiasco. It's a good idea to put some guardrails in place before the county hires her third executive assistant.
Tuesday, March 4 Report this
Virge13
This is such a perfect example of male hypocrisy. Look at what’s happening at the national level, we have a 34 count convicted felon who is also guilty of **** who was elected “President “. Talk about a lack of morals! But he’s fine, no problem there, he’s just a guy doing what guys do! But let a woman make one mistake and she’s disparaged and reviled. Check your make privilege guys.
Tuesday, March 4 Report this
Yeti1981
While all of the things that need to be fixed in the county are important, and many are mentioned in these comments, INTEGRITY is no small matter. If you can't do the little things right, even when nobody is watching, you can't handle the big tasks associated with the job.
Tuesday, March 4 Report this
ViaLocal
If you voted for Donald Trump you can consider giving Commissioner Clouse a second chance.
Tuesday, March 4 Report this
TheGreatAnon
I get why this situation troubles Commish Fournier so much. The good Commish had his own legal & ethics problems as a Tenino Mayor. Misdemeanor assault charges against a woman tending bar. HR head Hernandez quit before he could be fired for ethical lapses while serving as San Bernadino's top county executive including inappropriate hanky panky at the office. Perhaps both of them should be brought under closer supervision as well.
When I 1st read of this fiasco I thought 'how could Clouse & her paramour be do damned stupid.' And I still do. But we are what, coming up on two years down the road? Commish Clouse has taken responsibility for her ethical lapses and promises to do better. She has completed the classes HR as the BoCC instructed her to do. May she go forth & sin no more. At this point it seems like two guys with less than squeaky clean pasts have it out for her for no damn good reason. Come on boys, y'all made your point, now it's time to move on.
Tuesday, March 4 Report this
DesertMedic
This lady continues to be an idiot and is still around. Who voted for her? Embarrassing. She not only has no idea of what is common sense, but seems to crave attention.
Wednesday, March 5 Report this
CarolynT
As a tax paying citizen of this county, I am appalled that Miss Klouse is STILL on this board! She has cost the county a lot of money, grief and embarrassment with her juvenile mistreatment of her position and I feel it is the counties duty to take action against her, and terminate her position. What kind of message does this "slap on the hand" really send out? That you can do anything you want as a public official.
Great. That's just great. Disappointed in our officials and our county. What a disgrace.
Friday, March 21 Report this